Expensive AND Affordable Markets Are Feeling the House Hackers’ Wrath

Dave:
Welcome to On the Market. I’m your host, Dave Meyer, joined by the birthday boy, James Dainard, turning 40 years old today, in podcasting anyway. Thank you for joining us on your birthday.

James:
You know what? I wouldn’t rather be anywhere else.

Dave:
I think you’re lying, but I appreciate you saying that anyway. But how are you feeling? How does it feel to be 40?

James:
You know what? I’m actually feeling pretty sore, and I don’t think it’s the 40, it’s just because I had a little, I need to workout and just get after it this week. And I’ve definitely overdone it.

Dave:
I mean, you have more energy than most people I’ve ever met, so I don’t think 40 is slowing you down at all.

James:
No, not going to let it do a thing. Just keep growing.

Dave:
Well, James, we have an awesome show today. We brought in a couple of realtors. We have Ryan Blackstone from Northwest Arkansas, friend and partner of Henry’s, and Anson Young, one of the original BiggerPockets authors, and someone I’ve known for a long time, coming to talk about what they’re learning being an agent in two pretty different markets. As an agent yourself, what did you learn from this conversation or what do you think listeners should be on the lookout for?

James:
I think the biggest thing is to not just look at each market as one, but really just look at what is working in each market. Look at price points. The rates have spooked people, they’re kind of locking up and they think they need to look elsewhere. But the common message was, no, just break it down by price points and see where the opportunities are. And transactions can keep going on in any type of market.

Dave:
Awesome. Great. Couldn’t agree more. So we’re going to take a quick break of course, but then we’ll be back with Anson, Ryan and, of course, myself and James. Today for our realtor panel, we are of course joined by James Dainard, our resident realtor on the show. James, what’s going on, man?

James:
Oh, just enjoying the big day, number 4-0.

Dave:
Yeah, happy birthday. I was thinking about making these other guys sing to you, but I think that would be too embarrassing. But we’ll just tell you happy birthday.

James:
Only if it’s the Red Robin version, that’s the only one I want.

Dave:
I don’t know the Red Robin version.

James:
You don’t know the Red Robin birthday song?

Dave:
No. I know you were a Red Robin employee of the year. Can you sing it?

James:
Why don’t we save that for BP Con?

Dave:
All right, afterwards. Well, we also have other great real estate agents with us. BiggerPockets OG, Anson Young. Anson, what’s up, man?

Anson:
Hey, Dave. How’s it going, man?

Dave:
Good. Good to have you on the show. So Anson, for those people who don’t know you, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself?

Anson:
Of course. I’ve been investing and had my license since 2006-ish. And I mainly do residential single family real estate here in Denver, Colorado. I was briefly licensed in Arizona when we were doing some REO, so I have experience on the agent side with REO, short sales, just regular retail real estate. And then also do a lot of house hackers lately, seems to be a big market segment. But I’m also a BiggerPockets author, a book called Finding and Funding Great Deals. And yeah, enjoying life out here in Denver.

Dave:
And we also have Ryan Blackstone. Ryan, is this your second time on the show, third time?

Ryan:
Second time, yeah.

Dave:
All right. Well, welcome back. For those who didn’t listen to your first episode, can you just introduce yourself please?

Ryan:
Yeah, thanks for having me on. Ryan Blackstone, we’re in Northwest Arkansas. And we do residential, small multi, storage units and large multifamily. So, have fun on that.

Dave:
Nice, that’s great. Anson, let’s start with you, curious just a little bit about the Denver market. This is selfish because I still own property there. What’s happening in Denver?

Anson:
Yeah, man. Denver is nice because it acts like the coasts. And so when trouble comes around, we typically can weather the storm a lot better than the Sun Belt and the Southeast and areas like that, Rust Belt for sure. So yeah, looking at all the stats and everything, it’s still a seller’s market. It’s not strong, strong, but it’s still sellers market. Prices are still up year over year from this time last year. We only have six weeks of inventory, and inventory basically cures all problems, it feels like. As long as you have low inventory, it feels like things chug along no matter what. And yeah, we had a little bit of a dip in the beginning of the year, probably due to interest rates and other things. But yeah, this summer has been chugging along. And our days on market’s lower, and our prices are up even though we still have some price reductions and stuff. But overall, it still feels pretty normal and pretty the same stuff we’ve seen for the last three years. Inventory’s low, things are still selling and yeah, overall good.

James:
Anson, Denver’s market, I think it is funny, I’ve been tracking the market because it’s very similar to Seattle’s. We’ve been seeing the same kind of trend where it kind of came down, it bounced back up. Are you seeing the seesaw market, though, that we’re seeing, like every two weeks it goes up and then it comes back down? It’s like this constant up and down. And not big swings, but more just transactions wise. Are you seeing that in your guys’ local market right now?

Anson:
I don’t know about every two weeks. I think that’d be kind of hard to track. But I think it definitely does this weird thing. Obviously we’re seasonal, I’m sure Seattle is seasonal as well. Winter time’s a little slower than summer and all that. I think overall it’s been pretty strong. But there are fluctuations for sure where it feels like there’s less listings in the last couple of weeks, and then it’ll pop and then it’ll go back down. So yeah, for sure.

Dave:
What about you, Ryan? And just so everyone knows, Ryan and Henry Washington, who you all know, work together. But from what we hear from Henry, everything’s always perfect in Northwest Arkansas, and it’s just a magical place where real estate works all the time. Is that what you see as well?

Ryan:
Yeah, I think it’s the same thing that Henry’s been saying. So you guys need to invest here. But for real, I think for us it’s the same as what Anson was saying. It feels like we were climbing this mountain. And then when we got to the peak, which was like third quarter, fourth quarter, we kind of just have been on this plateau. It’s not going up. I mean, it’s going up slightly, it’s not going down. We’re just plateaued in some regard. The big change from 2022 to 2023 is seasonality came back. So typically, Q4, Q1 operates 20% less than Q2 and Q3. And so we have seen that, but that’s just signs of a normal, healthy market.

Dave:
And are all asset classes, all price ranges following the same pattern?

Ryan:
That’s a good question. No, that is not true. Small multifamily is just going nuts. I would say small multifamily is way harder than just normal single family residential. And that’s partly because, with the higher interest rates, a bigger buyer pool now is people who are wanting to house hack, where they buy a duplex, live in one side and rent out the other side. So now, small multifamily just runs and operates on retail market prices instead of any kind of cashflow price, from what we are seeing.
The other interesting thing for us is our rent rates are still double digits, like 18% increase in rents. And what I’ve heard or learned is we are so deregulated on our rent rates that, honestly, we don’t increase our rents because we don’t have to. If I needed to, to sell a property, I can double my rent rate and there’s no problem. Whereas, I heard in other big metropolitan areas where it’s highly regulated, you kind of have to keep rent increases, otherwise you miss out. And then office space I would say may be struggling, we’re not really filling that. But warehouse space, storage space is skyrocketing still. So that’s what we’re feeling.

James:
So Henry’s not painting a picture, Dave. It really is just a magical real estate bubble. Ryan, on these small multi-families, that actually kind of caught me a little bit by surprise, because I know the multifamily market has slowed down because our investor rates are terrible, it’s hard to cashflow deals. And you mentioned that now, and those investors were acquiring all these properties for two, three years, you couldn’t really get them as a house hack, owner occupied. And I know Anson also mentioned the same thing with the house hacking. Are you guys seeing that more in your local market where the affordability as people are just going to a new strategy to buy, they’re essentially paying for the rate increase and, by renting out, subsidizing their mortgage and then going towards the multifamily. Is that majority of the transactions going on, and where people are really focused on to get their monthly cost down?

Ryan:
What I’m seeing as far as buyers in the market, period, is you need to either have cash or cash equivalent. And if you’re needing to be in specific locations, you are looking to house hack and you’re totally cool with that, right? Or it’s like, how can I live in this or sustain in this property for the next five or 10 years? They don’t think they’re going to rotate out in a quick timeframe. And so the way to get your payments down, because the interest rates are high, is to offset with rentals.
Now, like Anson was saying, the biggest problem is still supply. We have 10 to 12 new households move in to Northwest Arkansas each day, and we aren’t even coming close to building that much. And in fact, builder permits have dropped even more. So again, yes, it’s harder for buyers and maybe the amount of buyer pool has dropped, but so has the seller pool and listings and new builds. And with multifamily, there’s not much multifamily being built. So I’m not seeing a ton of multifamily transactions. I’d probably see more if there was more supply. There’s just not enough supply out there. And the only big multifamily that is being built is a hundred plus apartment complexes.

Dave:
So Anson, everything’s perfect in Denver too, right?

Anson:
Oh yeah, for sure.

Dave:
Everything cash flows. You just throw a dart at a dartboard?

Anson:
That’s how I invest. I need that astrologer’s phone number. No. So kind of like Ryan was saying, I would say the majority of our transactions are just basic mom and pop, need to move before school starts, just pretty typical transactions. The house hacking pool are people who either want to get into investing but they want to stay local. So this is kind of the only way that they can do it in Denver. They’re not going to buy a duplex over in Edgewater or something and then spend $600,000 to do that and not really cashflow. They’re looking at that value play of house hacking their own property.
So yeah, I would say the majority of our transactions are pretty normal, conventional loans, all of that. And so there’s different market segments doing different things. But when your median house prices are like $600,000 or $700,000 and that’s kind of just your average price these days, people still need to move. Kind of like Ryan said, we have a lot of influx of new people, something like 50,000 a year coming to Denver, and we don’t have anywhere near that many units being built or inventory. I think we have like 5,000 that get listed every month and then 4,997 of them sell. So it’s like, we’re super low inventory and it causes a bunch of crunches in a bunch of different areas.

Dave:
Are you seeing any sort of, Anson, concessions anymore? I feel like last year we were seeing a lot of concessions. Is that still happening?

Anson:
It is a little bit. We’re not in that seller holds all the cards. They hold most of the cards, but not all of them. So they know that they have to budge a little bit here and there. There are, I think, your kind of below median house price homes in a good school district, the seller holds all the cards. It is going to list, it’s going to be gone in four days, there’s going to be multiple offers. There’s no reason to give any concessions.
In the condo market, and then also in that normal median house price, for some reason, is the one that’s a little bit slower right now. In those two markets, there’s going to be a little bit more concessions given than just that all day long below median house price houses that just fly off the shelf. So not a ton, and definitely not as many as the winter time, but they’re still definitely happening. I just had a listing where we had to give up 5,000 on concessions on a condo, but that’s pretty normal because condos aren’t selling nearly as quick, and way less showings and all of that. So just depends.

Ryan:
Yeah. What we see in our market for concessions is it is coming back. But what’s very interesting to me is right now if you took the city and you made it a bull’s eye, there was a lot of new build new construction on the ancillary markets, the outside rim. And the new builders are offering 10% in concessions. So they’re trying to pay closing costs, pay down points, offer upgrades because what happened is when everyone could work remote, they’re like, okay, it doesn’t matter where I live, I’ll go more outside of town. I love the country, heehaw. And then what happened was those prices went up, but now it’s unaffordable because now, you need to come back into work. So the amount you have to pay for gas and living far away has changed. Now, new build in the city is still going crazy and there’s no concessions there.

James:
You guys made a couple really good points. And as investors, we’re always tracking markets and cities and going, “This market’s doing really well.” But as you’re investing in today’s market with that high cost of capital, with a little bit riskier market that’s going on right now, you have to micro cut them down. And that’s what we’re having to do in Seattle too, is the upper echelon, the luxury pricing has compressed about 10%, and they’re still having to offer concessions because it is just expensive, and the amount of people that can afford those higher end markets. I know, Anson, we have very similar median home pricing. The luxury new constructions are like 3 million to 5 million in our market, that’s not trading at all.
But then your core, right around median home price homes, if they’re in a nice neighborhood, that are cleaned up nice, people are buying those and they’re selling for over list. The two asset classes that we’re seeing the most amount of deflation in, and concessions, are either the super high-end luxury or the massive fixers. Those are getting discounted dramatically too. But the rest of the market’s kind of just chugging along. People are going, Hey, we need the housing. They don’t have a choice at this point. They need the home. They want to get into a property. They have to make it pencil.
And I know in our local market, builders are the ones offering the concessions, not the flippers. The flippers are still moving their deals. The new construction guys are still getting lined up with buying their rates down, they’re getting preferred lenders and that’s helping move product. But that’s where we’re seeing this jolt back and forth on the uber expensive. The inventory’s above, if you’re double the median home price, it is sitting big time. But otherwise everything else is kind of moving forward.

Ryan:
Yeah, I would agree with that wholeheartedly. Flippers, they’re not giving concessions. And I think the big thing is, what everyone’s saying is, if it’s fresh and clean and doesn’t need repairs, the buyer’s taking it. The thing that makes it hard for that buyer is like, oh crap, it’s expensive and I have to worry about these things breaking or these things fixing as soon as I get in.
And honestly, the number one buyers that we’re really seeing is either cash or cash equivalent buyers, meaning that they already bought that first time home and then they’re upgrading up. So our average sell price is like 425 right now. If you’re at 425 or just a little bit higher, that buyer has a little bit more discretionary income so they can make it happen. But then we’re also seeing cash coming in from family members like grandparents to help the person buy the first home, or their 401K, they’re cashing out the 401K to then buy a house as well. So it’s keeping the prices up. I don’t really see that they’re putting like 25%, 35% down, but more getting to that 20%, let’s get rid of PMI, let’s get rid of FHA, VA loans and do conventional still.

Dave:
So this great is conversation about the market in general. I want to switch gears a little bit about what investors should do in your relative types of markets. So Anson, if I were a new investor moving to Denver, what would you recommend as a strategy?

Anson:
Yeah, in these high cost of living markets, you have somewhat limited options. You can’t do the crazy cashflow plays in the Midwest or anything like that. The things that I’m seeing and the things that I would do, house hack if you can. I think it’s still a great strategy here. There’s still a lot of upside and a lot of opportunities there, whether it’s like an up, down house where the basement’s split off or you split it off yourself, side-by-side duplex, there’s room by room. ADUs, we’ve opened up a lot of ADU zoning here in Denver. So accessory dwelling unit, you could build a carriage house or a garage with a two bedroom apartment over it. Those are all value add plays that make sense.
And if you’re not into house hacking and sharing your space, there are ways to maximize your cashflow here, which midterm rentals, short-term rentals and room by room rentals always underwrite your deal with long-term cashflow as your last resort. But we do have a lot of opportunities in certain areas for short-term. There’s restrictions of course in Denver, Aurora, Boulder, kind of the big areas. But there are little pockets where you can still buy for short-term rentals, and there’s no regulations. So I would keep an eye out for that.
Midterm. We have a lot of hospital complexes, really strong healthcare center for job centers here. That’s a great way to maximize your cashflow. And since it is not very affordable to live here, a lot of young professionals are opting for a room by room type arrangement where they can be in a five bedroom house, rent one of the bedrooms, and the common areas are furnished and they are saving half as much on their rent. You can go get a one bedroom for 2,000 a month, or you can rent a room in a nice house for 1,200 a month. Most of those young professionals would take that other option. And so those rentals are doing really well.
There’s even management companies that are springing up around just room by room management companies. And so there’s ways to do that that I think make a lot of sense when you can maximize your cash flow, because you can’t change your interest rate. And if you’re good at finding deals, you can do that. But if you’re just kind of a normal investor and you take what you can get from wholesale market or on the market, then working on maximizing your cashflow would be the way to go. So that’s what I would do.

Dave:
Yeah. Those are great ideas. Rent with the room, I’m always curious about this. Do you have any concept of how much more cashflow it could generate?

Anson:
So on a five bedroom, six bedroom house just north of Denver, in kind of like Westminster area, there’s some really good areas there where this makes sense. It’s close to Boulder, close to Denver, just down the road from the airport on the highway. So an area like that, a five bedroom single family, if you just rent it long-term, probably rents for 3,000, 3,200, somewhere around there. That’s probably the max that you’re going to get. Whereas room by room, obviously if it’s decent, the common areas are nice, it’s been upgraded somehow in some way, you can easily get 1,200 per bedroom. And so you’re talking 1,200 times five versus the 3,200 a month. So there’s almost, it’s not quite 2X, but there’s a significant boost in that income that makes it worthwhile for sure.

Dave:
Wow. That is very significant.

James:
I have found the same, that renting by the room will get you a lot more money for your property, but it also brings you a lot more problems, at least I’ve dealt with. I remember last year I got a call. I had brought a property up for rent for 3,500 bucks. And this group of five approached me and said, “Hey, we’ll pay you by the room. Can we do this?” And I was like, “As long as it’s on one master lease, I’m not doing individual leases.” And I was a little worried about it, but the cashflow was so much better. And then sure enough, 90 days later I get messages from all these tenants, like, “The fifth tenant is walking around naked all the time.” And I’m like, “This is not my problem. You guys redid one master lease. If you want to remove them, that’s fine.” But it is a great way to get into the market. And it comes down to, as an investor, sometimes you’ve got to deal with some grief to get into the game.

Dave:
Oh, totally. Yeah.

James:
When we were flipping in 2008, it wasn’t easy to get in, but we had to do what we had to do. And so it comes with the problems, but sometimes it comes with what the scenario is.

Ryan:
So is the suggestion to buy in Denver, house hack it and be okay with that naked man for a year and then we’ll be golden? That’s awesome.

James:
Yes, yes. That’s the strategy.

Dave:
No, but I agree with that general sentiment, James, it is so true that it’s not 2010. You can’t just buy anything and make it easy. That doesn’t mean there’s no options, but you’re going to have to do a little bit of work, whether it’s doing a reno, a value add, that’s work, in the same way that’s additional headache, in the same way that rent by the room is an additional headache. But we talk about this all the time, real estate is not really a passive business except in some extreme circumstances like syndications. But really, it’s just entrepreneurship, and you just got to pick the business that you want to run. And this is an option to build a higher cash flowing business, but it is more operationally complex.

James:
And treat it as a bridge. When you’re looking at a property, if you have to rent it by the room, that’s going to give you high income or cash flow it, but then see how long you’re going to have to do that. If you do think rates are going to fall over the next 12 to 24 months, you can plug that new rate in. That’s what we’ve been doing, is plugging the 6% rate in two years. And then we’re going, okay, cashflow is good here. So it’s almost just bridging you through. And the good thing is right now you can get some good discounts on property where you can get the equity, you can get the cashflow to cover, and then once rates fall, you can go back to a traditional rental and get rid of the headache. And so don’t always worry about the now. It’s that short-term pain, long-term gain. You just kind of got to grind it through at this point.

Dave:
All right. Ryan, what about you in Northwest Arkansas? What would you recommend for investors if they were new to the area and they wanted to get into the market? Best possible options for them?

Ryan:
So I always say the number one winner is always, if you’re going to be proactive in finding your own off-market deals, that’s surefire number one. House hacking is great as well. And I would just make a preface, I have a good buddy, Conrad Eberhard, shout out to him, he’s a lender. He was just telling me that buyers, there’s so much fear in the market right now, and so that’s reflecting in the interest rate. And then if interest rates go down to 5.5%, it’s like a trigger rate. And so what will end up happening is everything will go gangbusters again and prices will start soaring. And so if that is happening, then anything buying right now is still good, even though it’s hard. I would still say it’s good to buy.
My big thing is, as long as you can make the payments and then you don’t have to sell, then you’re never losing in real estate. So yeah, I would say off market. I would say house hacking. And then midterm is great. We still have not much regulation on any short-term rentals. And then flipping or building still is great. But when you’re not whole-tailing, you’re flipping it. You’re making it amazing.

Dave:
Nice. Have margins changed at all over the last couple of years?

Ryan:
Yeah. I mean, Henry has to do work to make 75,000 now per flip.

Dave:
Poor guy.

Ryan:
I know. I can’t just list it and be like, “Hey, that critter comes with the house. They got a lease on it.”

Dave:
That’s why we’re giving him the day off. He’s at the spa just relaxing.

James:
But that’s a good point. If you want to put in the work, the margins are there. It’s like, go after the ones that you have to put in work, and the margins have doubled, at least what we’ve seen across the West Coast. But Ryan said, you got to put in the work. This is a full on business, you’re not going to get lucky with the rates anymore.

Ryan:
It’s interesting. Typically, I would say our smaller market, which I still think we’re a big market, but whatever. You guys are like a crystal ball, which is great for me. So whenever I see the bigger markets take a dip or go up or whatever, I’m like, okay, that’s what I get to look forward to in six months. Yay. But it’s weird. It’s kind of still the same, right? That’s what I’m hearing, right?

James:
Yeah. I think so. At least that’s what we’re seeing on a national level in most of these big markets.

Dave:
So Ryan, I don’t know, are you an investor yourself as well?

Ryan:
Yes.

Dave:
Do you have any recent deals you can tell us about?

Ryan:
I’m honestly putting too much money into our office renovation, and that’s still going and struggle busting. But we just bought some storage unit facilities down in the capital of Arkansas, Little Rock. So that’s been good. And then flipping a deal here or there. So my main focus has been growing my team on the sales side of things and taking care of that office.

Dave:
Yeah. How long have you been doing the office, just out of curiosity?

Ryan:
Oh my goodness.

Dave:
You don’t want to say?

Ryan:
April of last year, I think I bought it, and just keep dumping money into it. So we did sell two storage unit facilities in Kansas City and got some money there to put into the office.

Dave:
Nice. Well, when James and I move to Northwest Arkansas, we’ll lease some space from you.

Ryan:
There you go. Yeah, it’s a coworking space. Henry’s there, I’m there, other investors.

Dave:
Well, the whole On the Market team, it’ll be great.

James:
Henry always puts a bow on that market. I’m really interested in going to visit it.

Dave:
Yeah, it’d be fun.

Ryan:
I’ll take you around. The only thing, James, is you have to fly to your boat. Sorry, man.

Dave:
What about you, Anson? What deals are you up to these days?

Anson:
Yeah, so for the past year and a half, two years, I’ve been focused mainly out of state. The grass is somewhat greener in some respects. I think competition really kind of drove me a little bit outside of Denver to go into the Midwest. And so our deals, what they look like now is BRRRR deals in Ohio and Nebraska. And then also we’ll wholesale or we’ll flip deals that just don’t meet our criteria, mainly wholesale them just to recoup some marketing money and go back at it. But that’s been my main focus, is cashflow. And so, finally getting on the smart bus and going that route.

Dave:
Well, yeah. Is it just a balance? Do you still own properties in Denver?

Anson:
I haven’t been much of a buy and hold investor here. I’ve been mainly just wholesaling and flipping in Denver my whole career.

Dave:
Okay. Yeah.

Anson:
So I don’t really have much here. Everything is out of state these days.

Dave:
But yeah, I guess you’re still kind of achieving that balance. You get your hits of income in Denver from flipping or wholesaling with your agent business?

Anson:
Agent stuff. Yep, exactly.

Dave:
And then getting the passive stuff externally. Yeah, makes sense.

Anson:
Exactly. Yeah.

James:
Yeah. Anson, have you switched the markets in the Midwest? So as you’re starting buying in other markets or you keep your rentals, with the rates changing, have you switched all that up and forecast in? Buying rentals in different states, I’m more of a backyard investor, but it’s always been interesting, but it’s hard, right? You got to renovate them, you got to target the right market. Are you buying in different markets now than you were 18 months ago because of just rates and the cashflow positions?

Anson:
No. Because once you’ve kind of built up teams and marketing and everything else and kind of pushed that snowball downhill, there would have to be something more catastrophic than just a couple of points in a rate increase to have to shift that hard, to take a huge right turn into a different market. So we’re still in the same exact markets that we were, we’re investing in the people on the ground and the market itself and still making it work through trying to buy as low as possible, trying to maximize the cashflow on the other end. And like you said, James, if the interest rate comes down to six in two years, then we’re golden for that. And in the meantime, we can still pencil deals now. And so we’re just focused on that. And so we haven’t had to shift too hard. We’ve probably pulled back in expanding into a couple of markets. But in hindsight, we probably should have just gone full bore into one or two other markets as well.

James:
Arkansas.

Dave:
Arkansas.

Anson:
I don’t know. Between James and Dave, it’s too much competition there.

James:
Nah.

Dave:
No. We’re going to all do it together.

James:
Yeah, and I love that because what Anson just said is he built good systems over the last three to five years in different markets. And no matter what’s going on, you’re still buying the same type of deal flow. You’re just kind of adjusting your mindset behind that. I know in Seattle we’ve had to do the same thing. It’s like, we don’t really care what’s going on, we’re just buying. We’re going to be always be buying. And you just have to tweak your systems. And if you have that set up correctly, you just have to more tweak it rather than rebuild. And for us, we’ve been buying a lot of value add and getting a lot bigger deals done because that’s just what’s available right now. And as long as you have those good systems, you can make your pivots. And every market still has an opportunity. It doesn’t need to be an affordable market. It can be an expensive market, they all have opportunities. You just got to switch on how you’re looking at them right now.

Dave:
That’s a good way to wrap it up, James. I think you just put a bow on this entire episode. So let’s get out of here. Anson, for people who want to learn more about you, obviously they have your book. You can find it in the BiggerPockets bookstore, which is biggerpockets.com/store. Where else can people interact with you, get to know more about you?

Anson:
If you want to connect with me on BiggerPockets, just search my name there, I’ll pop up. On Instagram, @younganson. And that’s me.

Dave:
All right. And Ryan, what about you?

Ryan:
Yeah, same. BiggerPockets, you can find me there, just type in my name. Or YouTube, we got a channel called Blackstone and Co. We’re starting to throw stuff on there. And then Instagram, I’m not on as much, but @ryan.blackstone12.

Dave:
All right, great. James, what about you?

James:
Probably the easiest place is Instagram @jdainflips or check me out on Jamesdainard.com.

Dave:
All right. And I am always on BiggerPockets, or you can find me on Instagram where I’m @thedatadeli. Anson and Ryan, thank you both so much for being here. Really appreciate it. Hopefully we will have you back on sometime. Tell us how your markets are shifting in a couple of months from now.

Ryan:
Sounds perfect.

Anson:
Love it. Thank you.

Dave:
On the Market is created by me, Dave Meyer and Kailyn Bennett, produced by Kailyn Bennett, editing by Joel Esparza and Onyx Media, Research by Puja Gendal, copywriting by Nate Weintraub. And a very special thanks to the entire BiggerPockets team. The content on the show On the Market are opinions only. All listeners should independently verify data points, opinions, and investment strategies.